Wisdom please.....

[lovelevi]

I have a question for all you wise women.

What do you think of telling my husband he has got to make a choice. Whether it be staying or going, he has to choose. I can understand if he says "I made a covenant and I am in this marriage but right now I am not in it emotionally but I want to be"

However, this flip flopping, one minute it is "I am leaving" the next "I love you, forget what I said about leaving".

That is driving me crazy. Should I just keep my mouth shut, love him and face whatever the future holds when it happens or give him the ultimatium?

I am just so unsure, I mean I know I will not quite. I know I am in this marriage for good. It is just so hurtful and emotionally draining to one minute be up because things look good then be completely crushed because he is leaving.

Any ideas or help?

[prancer]

Lovelevi-

I can only make a few suggestions for you. I have been there and recently too.

1) In my marriage with my first husband, we tried a concept that actually worked. We agreed on a separation period, 3 months. We agreed that neither of us would file for a divorce during that time. We agreed on things like, "Will we be able to date others?" How often will we talk and regarding what? Keep all finances the same, except for a place for hubby to stay during the separation period. I have the complete questionnaire if you are interested. I got the book at a Christian Bookstore and it's very good. Ultimately, the book suggests that if you give him a bit of room, he'll realize it's not what he really wants. My ex and I did get back together for about a year and a half before he was back at it again (cheating and lies). The book is called, "Should I stay or Should I go?"

2) In my current marriage, my husband is the one who has wanted to leave from time to time. I just keep telling him how much I want to be a good wife to him, how much I love him, and that I understand no matter what his decision is. I don't want him to go and I keep telling him that. There are times when I have thought to myself, "Next time he says he wants a divorce, I'm going to give him one." But I've never said that....probably because it's not what I really want. Still, it hurts to walk on egg shells thinking that any wrong move could send him out the door. It's very important to have that stability that your spouse isn't going to leave you. But limits are also important and you shouldn't be treated that way. It really depends on what you've tried. I'm patiently waiting on my DH right now and for God to change his heart...but I have lived in the shadow of bitterness and it ended my last marriage. I'd rather not end up there again.

Whatever you do, Jesus loves you and we're all here with you.

[Erica]

Oh dearest Amy,
I am terribly sorry to hear that you are going through this. I would love to join you for a cup a tea and lots of hugging! We sure all need that kind of love don't we!
I wish I had some wonderful wisdom for you, but I really don't. In my situation, my dh will not leave, I have suggested in time and time again that he just leave if he wants to continue making the choices (to drink mostly) that he does. But he tells me he is not going anywhere. I am blessed really.

All I have are hugs and lots of love Amy!

I will keep you and dh in my prayers!

Much love in Christ,
Erica

[Bondservant]

Consistant, specific prayer is such a help. I know we have discussed the book "The Power of a Praying Wife" many times, if you don't have it find a way to get it!

I know this may sound tedious, or maybe even unfair since you are the "injured party" (for lack of a better term!!), but you really need to build your husband up. I am finding that our guys have such fragile self esteems, which is usually why they are so easily lured by something else (women usually, but money, boats, motorcycles, porn, ect too). I know we shouldn't "have" to constantly remind them we love them, but they need it until they realize that their worth comes from God alone.

So pray God all over him. Remind him who he is. Yes - he is your husband, yes - he is a man, but more importantly he is a child of God. If he has asked for forgiveness and repented, then he is FORGIVEN. Wiped clean, forgotton. God says that if we confess our sins, He is faithfull and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1John 1:9) Do not let the devil keep reminding him of his sin. God also says that when He forgives He removes our transgressions as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103:12). Remind your husband that you forgive him as well. Remind him that he is the example for your son. When your son sees his dad walking in victory over sin, then your son will learn that walking with God is more powerful than walking with the devil.

Much love and prayers to you and your family sister,
In His Grip,
Melissa

[PADIVAN]

you know...I feel so limited when it comes to communicating this way on these boards...while they have been a blessing in my life...I also acknowledge the fact that we lose the benefit of facial expression and eye contact that can really communicate the love in which a person tries to communicate the truth. And we lose the benefit of hearing your "whole story" and just simply knowing you personally in real life. Having said all that, God knows you, loves you, and has already gone before you in your situation and has an answer for you.

As I thought through your question I Corinthians 7 comes to mind, especially verses 12-14. I truly believe that wisdom from the LORD is already revealed in scripture, so I believe we find much hope and answers through reading the Bible. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit in our lives gives us the power to live out scripture in a wise way. I do hope that this knowledge relieves you of the pressure of feeling as though you are having to chase after God's will for you in this situation as if it was some elusive thing that can't be caught. His will for you in this situation is found in His Word and through prayer and reading His word and growing in your knowledge of Him and in knowing His heart you will gain understanding and direction in your trial.
When I am in a quaundry it helps me to ask some questions of the LORD. First, "Lord, what will glorify you the most?" Secondly, "How does the whole message of the gospel (Genesis-Revelation) answer this question?" and "What impact does the knowledge of God's love, forgiveness, and grace toward me have on this situation and how I handle it?"

I too wish that we could just somehow get together at the local coffee shop and lend you our ear, shoulder, and love. Hopefully these boards though will be a blessing to you as you seek to obey and honor the LORD in your life.
Padi

[lovelevi]

Thank you all so much. Just knowing that there is someone out there who is praying makes a huge difference.

Prancer,
I am so sorry you are having the struggles with your husband that you are having.
Thank you for your advice and I am going to look for the book you recommended. I totally agree with you about bitterness, it has a lot to do with the reason we are in this mess right now.
It is so hard to just love and get nothing in return. God bless you, sweetie. I will certainly be praying for your husband and that God gives you the strength to continue on the path you are taking.

Erica,
I would love to have you and everyone else in this "family" over for tea and a good cry too. I just think it would be so wonderful to have someone to share with in person that wouldn't judge my husband or condemn him. None of my "in Person" friends or family knows anything about any of this.
I thank you for your prayers. I will continue to pray for your husband and family too. My husband's grandfather drank for 20 years, his grandma kept praying and one day the Grandfather stopped drinking and was the sweetest man you ever met. God can do it!

Melissa,
I will look up this book, too. I do need to try harder to build my dh up and really let him know how much I love him. Sometimes we get sucked into the flesh and pride saying if he doesn't do such and such then I am not. I know that is wrong. Thank you, and I am really going to pray even harder for him.
Thank you sweetie.

Padivan,
Thank you. I do feel like I have got to chase or find God's will sometimes. I feel like I listen but can't hear. Thank you so much for the questions to self too. I also find myself neglecting my Bible reading and then I think how will I ever hear God if I don't listen to Him through His word.
I do appreciate your help.

I appreciate all of you so much, just for listening. After I posted this last nite, I thought I really need to look at me. What I am doing? Well, I was looking at my husband, I was looking to him for love and if he wasn't going to give it then neither was I, I was not loving unconditionally, I was living in fear of what might happen and trying to control my situation.

Goodness gracious, how can I do so many wrong things all at once! LOL........ Anyway, I had a talk with my husband and he says he does want to be here. You know what I don't know that I believe him at all. I don't FEEL like he wants to be here. Praise God we aren't to go on feelings. I am committed to this relationship and if I don't love like God loves and be free from fear then we won't make it due to me.

Thank you all so much. I am really going to try harder and love no matter what I FEEL.

[ozzie]

Hey, I'm so glad to hear you've made a decision. I was in a similar situation in my first marriage - my ex would leave, come back, hate me, then love me, tell me its over & he wants a divorce, then next day tells me I should be fighting for him. I read so many books, tried every single thing I could. I always walked in love, forgiveness, kindness, grace - even when he was a total pig I did what was right. He just didn't change though, so I got sick & tired of all the back & forth.... I just wanted it one way or the other... so at times I let myself vent at him thinking that would shock him out of his 'double-mindedness', I would write letters explaining things, I'd ring one of his friends to try to get them to make him see sense. I think I tried it all. He still walked out again (I know if I hadn't said it's over, he'd still be walking in & out).

The point I'm trying to make is this ... YOU haveto do what's right, true, loving and good ... despite what your husband or even the entire world is doing. Because if he is going to walk out, it's because he wanted to. He is responsible for him, you are responsible for how you act.
I am so glad that I was loving & forgiving, because I can look back & say I did my best, I did all I could do .. .I have a clear conscience. I mean, imagine if you finally did give your husband an ultimatum & he took it & left, then he changed his mind again, are you going to forgive him again? probably, then the whole thing will start again. There is no fix you can do that will make your husband change (except his own choices, you can't make them for him). So you may as well love & forgive because it's right, not so that you'll get a good outcome, but because it's right.

If you get to a point at some stage, where you are completely settled in telling him that next time he walks out, you won't take him back ever, then there won't be a big batltle in your mind - you'll just reach that point where you know what you have to do and you'll do it. Until then, do what you know you are settled & in peace with doing.

[lovelevi]

Thank you so much, Ozzie.

Thank you for your story, so much!
You are so right in the fact that if this marriage ends I want to know I did everything God commands me to do and I can go with a clear conscience.
Thank you again, you just don't know what your post has meant to me.

Amy

[windward]

Dear Lovelevi,

As I read your post, I was struck by the fact that in the face of infidelity and a husband who is dithering about whether he wants to stay in the marriage that YOU are the one seeking wisdom and the will of God for your life in this situation. Wow, that is amazing and "good on you" as my Aussie friends would say. My heart aches for what you have been through, and the other ladies have given you some real, solid advice. I don't think I could offer any thoughts other than to say don't issue any ultimatum you are not prepared to back up because then people (and husbands) don't take you seriously or they view your ultimatums as just another attempt to manipulate them. Charles Stanley has a quote from his grandfather that I think covers a lot of situations, and it is "Obey God and leave the consequences to Him." As Ozzie says, you keep doing the right thing, and then you will stand with a clean conscience before the Lord no matter what happens.

Sometimes when my husband is being impossible and I don't feel very loving toward him or even like him at the moment, I remind myself that he is my brother in the Lord, which helps me because instead of focusing on his behavior in light of our romantic-marriage relationship, I can look at him as if he were a friend behaving badly or an acquaintance or just another Christian . It takes some of the heat out of the situation for me and I'm better able to act in an agape fashion, that is, being calm, polite, patient, etc., just like I would if I had a co-worker at the courthouse go a little bonkers on me. It gives me distance and another perspective on the situation, and so does reminding myself that even if my husband were to pack his bags and leave that the Lord would see me through it - I wouldn't fall to pieces. God doesn't tell us to behave a certain way and then, when we get treated badly because of it , leave us to fend for ourselves and say "Good luck with that." KWIM?

That Power of a Praying Wife book has a permanent home in my desk drawer at work. You should be able to find it at a local bookstore. It sure has helped me many a time. I will be praying for you, dear sister. Hang in there! We love you - Win.

[lovelevi]

Windward,

Thank you very much. I know if my husband left I would be ok, I do worry about my son though, he needs a daddy. I know God would take care of both of us.
It isn't the leaving that scares me so much it is just the uncertainty, the not knowing. I also fear really allowing myself to love dh competly and giving him my heart then he just up and leaves.

Thank you again,
Amy

[PADIVAN]

loveli, dh and I are going through a difficult trial right now related job situation. In the midst of it all I (we) have found ourselves feeling as though we are having to chase down God's will for us...I have come to realize that this feeling is not only from a "pagan" perspective (Matthew 6:33), it is also a red flag for me to realize that I am not relying on scripture--His revealed Word to me--to be "enough" in my life. Somehow I lose focus of this when going through a trial that lasts for awhile. I might start out okay--but then somewhere along the way I get "lost" and think--"Where is God? Where are the answers? What do I do now?" Thankfully the LORD is so faithful to get me back on track as I read His word and pray. You are right, we simply will not recognize the Holy Spirit's prodding in our lives if we aren't close to Him. I like to think of it like a little lamb that needs to stay so close to His shepherd that if the Shepherd turns a certain way He brushes up next to the little lamb and that signals the little lamb to move a certain way. So stay close to your shepherd so that you will feel him brush right up next to you when He turns a certain way. Lots of love, Padi

[windward]

Dear Lovelevi-

I totally understand your position, and I think you have valid reasons for thinking the way you do.
You told us on another thread that your husband has decided to stay, and I am wondering if perhaps some Christian marriage counseling together might help? If he were willing to go to counseling with you I would take that as a token of his good faith towards making the marriage work, and that might relieve some of your anxiety? Just a thought. My prayers are with you. Big, big hugs. Win.

[lovelevi]

Thank you girls so much.

I have suggested counseling but he won't go. Yesterday was an awful day and he said he wanted a divorce but then came home later to say he was sorry.
God really needs to work in both of our hearts. Thank you for all your prayers! I do appreciate them.

[windward]

Dear Lovelevi -

Okay. I have a question: When your husband starts talking about divorce, is it after an argument or some kind of heated exchange, or after he's had a bad day at work (That's it! I want a divorce!") or is it more of a serious, reflective statement wheere you can tell he's been thinking about it for some time? Is there a trigger that brings it on? And what is your reaction to it? Is his apology generated because you think he's been convicted by the HS and truly means it or that maybe he's apologizing because you're crying and upset and he just doesn't want to deal with it. Is there any statement of renewed commitment to you along with the apology? I think the answers to those questions can sort of give you an indications whether he's mentally already out the door or is just being emotionally manipulative and using the d-word as a big stick or like a child threatening to run away from home, just generally taking out his unhappiness with his life on you.

If hubby isn't interested in counseling, it might help you to go by yourself. Living in uncertainty is very stressful - mentally, emotionally, physically, and you need some resources for yourself - a sounding board, someone to help you navigate this rough patch in your life, and if you have a Christian marriage and family counseling center in your area, they can really, really help you in so many ways. They did me.

My thoughts and prayers are with you, sister. May the God of all comfort be with you. (((HUGS))) - Win.

[lovelevi]

Windward,

He usually says "divorce" when he is mad at me or just having a bad day.
I told him he needs to really think about things before he says them and next time he is going to say "divorce" he might as well bring the papers.
I really try not to argue with him at all, so when he is ranting and raving about divorce I just usally say that if that is what he wants then fine but it isn't what I want.
He told his mom that I remind him of what he has done every day and he just can't live like that. You know I think he is right. I really need to look at myself and see what I am doing to show him I forgive and love him no matter how hard it is.

Although I get so mad because it is so unfair that I am the one striving to stay married to this man and he is "confused" and he is the one that cheated on me!

Anyway, God will get me through. I do have another question though, we say we are to give it to God. Does that mean I should just give it to God, love my husband and do nothing else?

There really aren't any counseling centers around here, we live in such a very small town.

Thank you for your post and your prayers! I appreciate them so much.